How much of a deal killer if your camcorder has poor IS?

[Norris Combs]

I just finished reading the review of the Sanyo Xacti VPC-HD2000. A glaring weakness stands out: terrible image stabilization. I've been using the Canon HV10, it died a couple months back, and I've been searching for a replacement ever since. I do mostly recording of family outings (camping, skiing, birthdays,....) Do you think with a practically nonexistent image stabilization feature, that all my videos will be unwatchable? I rarely use a tripod. I might just end up getting the HF-S100 for $400 more than the Sanyo's price.

Thanks for any input,

[Ron Chau]

If you don't zoom a lot, I think you should be fine. I have the Sanyo FH1 which is the horizontal version of the HD2000. For zoom shots, a tripod is not the only way to keep things steady. Put the cam on something solid like a table, book, and zoom away. If you are sitting, rest the cam on your knee.

[Norris Combs]

Originally Posted by Ron Chau

If you don't zoom a lot, I think you should be fine. I have the Sanyo FH1 which is the horizontal version of the HD2000. For zoom shots, a tripod is not the only way to keep things steady. Put the cam on something solid like a table, book, and zoom away. If you are sitting, rest the cam on your knee.

Thanks Ron,

So you're saying for normal shooting, I can stand back, hold the camcorder in my hand (or with both hands if need be), record, and the video will be pretty good? Do you notice any headache-inducing jerkiness with your videos?

[Ron Chau]

I don't have any problems unless I zoom. A soft touch works best for holding the cam still.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Norris Combs

...Do you think with a practically nonexistent image stabilization feature, that all my videos will be unwatchable? I rarely use a tripod. I might just end up getting the HF-S100 for $400 more than the Sanyo's price.

Thanks for any input,

If you OK with spending $400 more for the HF S100 go for it, it's better camera no doubt,
plus editing is less hassle than MP4s from Sanyo,
I've tried FH1 and I can't say it's EIS is nonexistent, it does a good job compare to IS off,
but again HF Sx is a way better cam:

Canon HF S10 vs Sanyo VPC FH1 on Vimeo

[Robert M Wright]

You could get a Canon HF100 (or HV30), with OIS, for close to the same cost as the Sanyo Xacti HD2000.

[Ron Chau]

The advantages of the Sanyo are 1920x1080 60p, resolution, low light capabilities, low noise, price and size.

The cam is tiny, which for me means I can take it with me everywhere all the time. It also helps with blending in. Sometimes you want the camera or yourself to be "invisible". Capturing moments where people are acting naturally because they are not aware they are being recorded.

AVCHD is not so easy to edit either. Many experts are recommending converting for editing purposes regardless if it's AVCHD or AVC/MP4. Cineform NeoScene cost $99.

The Canon S100 is a great cam, but the Sanyo has it's advantages too.

[Norris Combs]

Looking at that Vimeo comparison, I don't mind the oversaturated appearance of the Sanyo. What I am worried about is that many people have said (not necessarily in this thread) that MPEG4 is very hard to edit, I use Vegas Pro 8. The Canon HF-S100 uses AVCHD, which is easier to work with. I typically keep my camcorders for a long time, no upgrade unless it stops working. I was happily travelling along with HDV. How important is it to have 60p of the Sanyo? When will I notice this advantage?

Thanks,

[Peter Holzel]

I hate shakiness in my footage, so I would be hesitant about a bad OIS. However, I almost always use a tripod or monopod or hague mmc stabilizer. Therefore, for me, OIS doesn't matter much. It sounds like it would matter for you.

For anyone who likes to shoot handheld, I would recommend a cheap $10 monopod. It makes a huge reduction in camera shake (more of a reduction than OIS), and the monopod is very portable.

[Rob Croll]

For family outings and alike you want all the bells and whistles, good IS, auto-focus etc because tripods and spending time setting focus, WB, exposure and alike isn't an option. You really need to point and shoot. Sony and Canon seem to be the benchmark for HD home use.

As far as AVCHD goes I think Canon and Sony are looking into the future. As people start upgrading to quad core and i7 computers, these issues will disappear.

[Craig Bellaire]

I am also looking at this camera... YES I hate jaggies... I hate MPg- codec... BUT 60P is very nice and smooth... So if you edit in any decent software the use the plug in to stabilize it... V-Dub has several and man they look good.... So don't overlook software to fix this problem...

Canon or anyone else doesn't have 60P .... plus you can buy 2 of these for the price of a canon and I love canons...

[Ron Chau]

Looking at the samples on youtube, vimeo and my own clips, I haven't seen many shaky shots. If there are any, it usually was with full zoom.

[Dave Haynie]

Originally Posted by Norris Combs

Looking at that Vimeo comparison, I don't mind the oversaturated appearance of the Sanyo. What I am worried about is that many people have said (not necessarily in this thread) that MPEG4 is very hard to edit, I use Vegas Pro 8. The Canon HF-S100 uses AVCHD, which is easier to work with.

That's technically untrue... AVCHD and MPEG-4 are essentially the same thing, when it comes to editing. AVCHD stuffs an AVC (H.264, MPEG-4 Part 10) video stream, an AC-3 audio stream, into an MPEG-2 transport stream. Sanyo's implementation uses that same basic AVC video stream, an AAC audio stream, and wraps that in an MPEG-4 transport stream. It's the AVC video steam that makes editing difficult -- it's the same in either case.

I use Vegas Pro 9... it does have problems with the Sanyo FH1 streams at 1080/60p... I'm seeing crashes, others are seeing success in loading. It doesn't matter all that much, given that 1080/60p in AVC is really not editable on a modern, fast machine. In fact, you need a pretty good machine to even play it back... without GPU acceleration, it takes about 65-75% of the CPU (all four CPUs together) of my Q9550 system to play back at 60fps using Splash Lite. So you can imagine what editing is like.. this needs twice the CPU for editing as anyone's 1080/60i or 1080/30p.

Frankly, I wouldn't do any serious editing directly on AVC of any flavor. I use CineForm NeoScene, it works great. This lets me edit HD pretty much as fast as DV was, even in 1080/60p. I used to drop AVCHD files from another camera on the timeline in Vegas and do minimal editing.. it worked, but if this was anything more than some simple cuts, I'd render it out to high quality MPEG-2 or something. Cineform is better than that... faster, higher quality, etc. You do need the HDD space... that's about 100GB per hour for 1080/60p, 50GB per hour for 1080/60i.

Originally Posted by Norris Combs

I typically keep my camcorders for a long time, no upgrade unless it stops working. I was happily travelling along with HDV. How important is it to have 60p of the Sanyo? When will I notice this advantage?

I like to do multi-camera shoots, so it's easy to justify a second and third camcorder.. much harder to justify another $3000 or so to match my "A" camera (Sony HDV). I went to the first AVCHD camcorder to have a unit I could use for everyday work... I'm shooting 2-3 high school soccer matches a week, and really don't want to run up professional camera mileage on that, much less all the time it takes to capture HDV. That camera (a Hitachi Blu-Ray model, recently sold on eBay) was just not up to the challenge... AVC encoding has been evolving fast.

The Sanyo wins.. its 1080/60p video is overall better for soccer footage than the Sony. Sanyo's sensor is pretty fine, particularly considering it's a 1/2.5" chip in such a cheap camera. It's surprisingly good in low-light, etc. Yeah, they have the saturation cranked up a bit.. I'm used to that, I have a Canon HV10, too, and have to de-saturate that to match video from the Sony, when I use both. You figure the correction once, and apply accordingly from then on.

Depending what you shoot, the 1080/60p may not be valuable. Certainly, if I had just one camera, I'd have a problem with the VPC-FH1, since it lacks mic inputs, which are crucial for good audio, when that matters (I have a Rode mic on my Sony that cost nearly as much as the Sanyo).. the Canon S10/S100 is probably an overall better choice if you're looking for prosumer features, unless you find the 1080/60p compelling. Also, your maximum rate for 1080/60i is 17Mb/s.. I don't think it matters, but some people claim quality improvements with Canon's 24Mb/s (all the bitrates are tied to video modes in the Sanyo, you can't mix and match them). Of course, I'd also be put off if my only camcorder didn't have a viewfinder as well as the LCD panel.. I'd seriously have to consider the Panasonic TM300 as well, going up to that Canon price-point. I got the Sanyo specifically for decent "B" or "C" camera video only, flash storage, and experiments with 1080/60p... I wasn't sure I quite believed in it. I do now.